A Historic Day - "Remains" To Be Seen

I’m a neutral on Brexit… admittedly I voted remain after doing  a lot of research and seeing through the misinformation of the Brexit campaign. But I always wanted to leave,  just didn’t think it was going to improve things. To be honest if the Brexit campaign hadn’t employed misinformation I may have voted to leave.  However the vote is out…. albeit by a tiny majority, so let’s get on with it.   

My problem is still that I don’t trust the Tories to get a good deal for the majority of people. The way they ran the referendum was a shambles and has split the country, not brought it together. 

 I was bemused by what I was hearing on the radio today, so called “Brexiters” claiming that so called “Remainers” would be the cause of Britain not getting a good deal on leaving the EU ……. Really …come on REALLY!  Let not start trying to put the blame off on others before we even start or is the confident bravado waning now?

This has to stop we are going into no man’s land, we may end up better off, we may end up worse off. No one knows because it’s not been done before. It’s a coin flip and anyone who tells you different is just guessing. The more those that voted to leave keep name calling with “Remainer’s” “Remoaner’s” Etc the more the country will be divided.  

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. People who vote Tory don’t suddenly become labour supporters when Labour gets voted in, no they still have their ideal's and opinion’s and carry on arguing their point of view.

The beauty of this country is its still one of the most democratic countries in the world, regardless what we think of our politicians.  The only thing both camps should be doing now is scrutinising what deal this government is going to get for the Majority ….. I aint holding my breath.

One thing im sure of this wont just take 2 years.  We may leave the EU in 2 years but we will be sorting this out for 10 years plus.

Brexit trade deal could take 10 years

In my opinion it will be 20 years before we've finished dealing with Brexit fallout.  The UKs ambassador thinks it could take 10 years to get a trade deal sorted out. Theresa May however hasn't got a clue and successfully answers every question that wasn't asked and avoids the one that was asked.

Brexit trade deal could take 10 years, says UK's ambassador.

"Mayhem" (Theresa May) yet again successfully avoids answering the very clear and succinct question put to her. 

Links

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38324146

Yes out means out or ... what does it mean?

I like the irony of this

I'm increasingly getting bored with the 52% that voted for brexit saying just accept it stop whinging etc etc bla bla,  as if they would have remained quiet if theirs was the 48% vote.  Why should people remain quiet? They may have lost the vote by a very slim majority, not even sure it can be called a majority, but they are still allowed to have an opinion, that's why we like this democratic country.

I actually voted remain but I'm happy were out, because that's what I wanted to vote for ... so why didn't I?

I may not be academically qualified but I have a good dose of common sense and I actually did a lot of research into what Brexit was all about. I swung back and forwards many times in the lead up to the referendum. I would suggest that I did much more research than was done by some, who just cast their vote on the false promises of closed borders and 350 million a week paid back to the NHS. If you really believed the lies of Boris and (there will be bumps in the road) Gove etc then im sorry but you were mislead, as has been proven after the vote.

Actually no.... lets not be politically correct here. If you based such a momentous decision on the basis of media and politician lies without researching it just a bit, because that's all it took, then you are a class 1 fucking twat, nothing more nothing less.

Now I voted in but only by the slimmest margins and if you look back through my blogs you can see my thought processes.  I went though that because I realised it was important, important for me, my family and the Country.

So what swayed me, because believe me I wanted out of a corrupt EU.

1. Top of my list, after doing much research I realised it would take at least 20 years to sort out the mess of Brexit. I don't really want 20 years of pain, simple as.
2. Control of borders, we actually have more control of our borders within the EU, certainly more control than any other EU country. But we wont have that any more, once we leave. 
3. 350 million we get back will go to the NHS .... this is such utter bollox that im not even going to bother with it and if you thought it was true then please leave my blog it will only confuse you.
4. We need to deal with the EU and they need to deal with us, yes ..... but we had a large say in what went on, even though it was corrupt, we knew that, and we had a veto. Once we leave we throw all that away. We have nothing, no say, no veto. Yes we are masters of our own destiny, but the world is a rather large place and although we try and punch above our weight, others are catching up. Much bigger countries are catching up and the golden egg is trading with 27 countries not one.
5. The politicians lied through their teeth and we as a country was going to expect them to negotiate Brexit and report back faithfully to the British public what deal they had got ....... Yeah right!  Again you might fool the Sun readers you aint fooling me.

The Tories never had a Brexit plan and to this date still dont. They are still putting their Brexit committee together, FACT.

The most we get out of May is Brexit means Brexit. Very good to keep quoting that when you havnt got a scooby. Its nice and simple and doesn't confuse people, yup Brexit means Brexit the Brexiters can be heard parroting, stop winging about it. Well sorry and FRO because I want it spelt out what Brexit means because it can mean many things and the Tories are happier if we are kept in the dark.

Cameron ran for the hills after categorically stating in the Commons that he would stay on regardless of the vote. He ran as soon as he knew he would have to negotiate Brexit. He ran because he knew what was coming in the negotiations, not a lot! .... he already had all he could get when he held all the cards. Now the cards are down its going to get very tough.

May is playing the political game of trying to pretend to be very clever and not disclose her hand. A hand they supposedly hold but dont even know what cards it consists of. Luckily Corbyn has seen through this and called her out on it today. I did love the Baldrick comment. "Cunning plan of not having a plan"  but unfortunately true.

A lot of people are jumping to their defence on this and agreeing that they cant give a running commentary ..... er... excuse me running commentary? We have nothing, zero, ziltch, fcuk all... to be crude.

They are basically screwed either way. Remember the vote was close 52% - 48%  its almost certain at least half of the 52% wont be pleased with the result of the negotiations, that means  that around 74% are gonna be pissed off with what they manage to negotiate. Im happy to be out but if any of you think we hold the cards in this negotiation your living in dream land.

There are so many facets to Brexit and they think its OK for it to be totally secret.  That's a very good ploy when you know damm well your going to be shafted. If no one knows what you were trying to get, you can claim to have achieved it and the good old sheep in the British public will be applauding loudly.  If no one knows what the Tories think Brexit means, then again, they can say Oh no it never meant that, where did you get that from.

Hmmm sorry you aint fooling me. We don't need to know all the details but we do need the basic principles of what we think Brexit means debated in parliament, that's what its there for, we live in a democracy, not a dictatorship or it was last time I looked.

And I want it written down in Blood!

Is Boris an accident waiting to happen?

Over the years I've worked with many intelligent, some incredibly highly intelligent people. However I discovered a long time ago that there is no correlation between intelligence and common sense nor intelligence and diplomacy.

Boris Johnson's stumbling if not embarrassing performance at the french embassy would be funny if it wasn't so worrying. 

I can understand why Theresa May would give him the job of forign secretary, you started it you sort it out, but negotiating the exit of the UK for the EU is a massive job, possibly even bigger than that of PM. 

Is an intelligent buffoon the right man for the job? Personally I think he will not be able to get the best deal for the UK. 

He will lie through his back teeth, just as he did in the referendum and the public wont know what we are getting or not getting. But he will claim, whatever, that he's done an amazing job and got an amazing deal for the UK.

Unfortunately I fear the UK will suffer for years over this, while the EU sniggers behind closed doors.

Theresa May meanwhile will be able to distance herself from it claiming she put a Brexit in charge, what more could she do?

Think of it in simplistic terms

 Your the leader of a gang and a very respected member of your gang wants to leave. Now you know that this very respected member has friends that would also leave if they saw Respected member leave and be successful. If they all leave your gang will probably break up.....

QUESTION... as leader of the gang would you help respected member to be successful after he's left or would you do everything you could to make it as difficult as possible for him? 

Once you have the answer to that one we go back to reality... to TTIP, 

Lets go by facts Cameron is on record saying "We want TTIP, we want it now" 

So post referendum, we have left the EU.... The leader of the UK needs to set up trade deals but the EU is being difficult so they turn to the US, we already know Cameron will accept TTIP as it is, THATS BAD. 

Meanwhile in the EU the remaining 27 countries negotiate TTIP with the US because they are in a position of power and any one of them can veto it at any time if its not right for them. Do you think that all 27 countries will accept TTIP, without saying anything .....

The odds are massively against, TTIP will be being negotiated for a long time until the deal is right. 

We shall see....

No one in the Brexit camp posted any plans on what they would do if we left

Did you notice that no one in the Brexit camp posted any plans on what they would do if we left, no one has spent any money on researching the best solution to any of the problems we would face. Its almost as if we'd get a vote to leave and wake up in the morning to sunshine, spitfires flying over the fields and mum making us horlicks.


I reckon its a big con there was never any chance of an out vote..... Oooops did I say that out loud.

We didn't fight two wars to hand the country over now.

People say its was better in the old days, vote to get our country back, but was it?

They say our fathers and grandfather fought for this country dont give it away now!

The problem is, how far do you want to go back, should we go back to the Victorian era when Britain's empire was the envy of the world?

When you either had money or didn't? When there was no NHS and if people couldn't afford to be treated they were left to die?
Back to when when we were tying Indian's to the front of cannons and firing cannon balls through them? 

Its great to think how great things were in the past, but were they really?

I know things are better now than in my childhood and I know they are better than when my great granddad lived in a little tiny 2 bedroom house in Norfolk with 8 kids working as a laborer in the fields. 

Going backwards doesn't make things better.

The people that will be in charge if Brexit happens, Johnson, IDS, Gove, they are throwbacks to the Victorian era they have absolutely no interest in you or me. They will destroy the NHS faster than even Cameron and Osbourne are and then you'll either need insurance or be left to die, like in the US or in so much debt that you lose your house .... full circle bam back to the Victorian era. But it was good then wasn't it? We had an Empire didn't we? Well some did, those rich enough to appreciate it the rest just survived.

With regard to, "we didnt fight two wars to hand the contry over now" well .... I appreciate peoples sentiment, I really do, I've been there. 

Thatcher got another term in government because of war fever, its powerful stuff. 

My Dad went ashore D Day 6, my uncle landed the guys on the beaches and collected dead bodies out of the sea, my uncle charlie died and another is in a grave in Tripoli. Now im not going to say how any of those would have voted but don't forget we didn't win it on our own. 

Without the polish airmen and others in the Battle of Britain we could have so easily lost and be speaking German now, well I wouldn't be here anyway. 

The list of countries who's airman stood with us in the Battle of Britain (Im just talking RAF here many others served in the land forces) reads: Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Poland, Ireland, and Australia, Barbados, Canada, Jamaica, Newfoundland, New Zealand, South Africa, Southern Rhodesia, United States. Back then if we had said, nope stiff upper lip, we British will go it alone. 

There is no doubt we would have failed, together we were stronger.

I've researched this for weeks and believe me I wanted to vote out when I started, but where is Johnson, Gove and IDS plan of action if they win?

They have nothing or if they have they havnt told anyone... Why? 

If they had a reasonable plan they could convert me, but no they have nothing apart from tugging on peoples emotional stings and harping on about we did alright before... it was better when we were in charge .... There might be bumps in the road Gove said, Bumps in the road? Note he's said if he doesn't get his way he's off, real staying power he's got. Just as well we had Churchill rather than Gove.  He'd have been off at the 1st setback in the war.

They, Brexit, havnt got a clue and the reason I know that is fact is because no one knows what will happen because its never been done. It might be good it might be bad but the odds are that the EU will make it bad. They cant afford for us to leave and be successful, simple as.

I've not seen anyone post a reasoned, thought out rational opinion on leaving the EU with a strategy on what they will do to renegotiate trade links? 

What they will do when they restructure all the laws? 

What they will do about immigration and migration?

What they will do about all the EU workers that are working here, not taking 'British' peoples jobs, but doing jobs that British people wont do? 

What they will do about all the businesses that will close because British workers wont do it because its hard, farm laboring like my great granddad did? 

What they will do about all the mental health workers that are here doing jobs that they cant fill by advertising in the UK because British people don't want to do it? 

Will they go running straight to the US and accept TTIP, so that trade links are not broken? 

Not easy to negotiate with the US if your on your back foot.

So many unanswered questions. 

The EU is not great, but in it we have a voice to change policy, we have a veto and we are a country with influence.

Out is like jumping out a plane without a parachute and hoping someone will bring one to you, they might, but the odds are they might not make it.

Professor Michael Dougan on the EU Referendum

Professor of European Law at the University of Liverpool, Professor Dougan provides his viewpoint on the EU referendum, and discussed the facts and figures circulated by both the ‘Leave’ and ‘Remain’ campaigns.

The misleading facts and inaccurate quotes from both sides, have been astounding in the run up to this vote.  This is well worth listening to.